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[muslimjinn]

It was the "Urf" 30 years ago among mujtahids that Christians and Jews are Najis!

Now it is "'Urf" that they are not.

What does that tell you about 'Urf?

'Urf means nothing when it comes to formulating Islamic laws. For that we have to use Qur'an, Hadeeth, Ijmaa' and 'Aql.

'Urf means, that which is customary, however just because something is customary, it doesn't make it right. 'Urf is not a Hujjat (proof).

I know of three top experts in Islamic law that say women can be Marja's; Jannaati, Fadlullah and Saanei.

That is enough to prove that this Urf argument of yours holds no water on this issue. You must prove that women can't be Marjas
and if you can't, you must accept that women can be Marjas too.

Look, if Fatimah al Zahra (as) of Zaynab (as) was alive and no other Imams were present would you refuse to follow her views on Islamic law because of Urf??? lol.

Watch the movie Maryam al Muqaddasah and see how the Jews in her time tried to prevent her from praying in the temple with the men.

Why did they refuse? Urf! Namely, it is not customary for women to pray in here, so they can't.

If you have Mustamsak 'alal 'Urwah al Wuthqaa of al-Hakim, there should be a discussion on this topic. Please consult with that work and get back to us.

Jurists have different opinions and the minority opinion is not necessarily the incorrect one bro.

We are Shi'ah and we are the minority among Muslims. Should we abandon our beliefs because it goes against the Urf? lol.

You are misusing the term Urf in Islamic jurisprudence.

For example, if you ask a Marja', how much food, shelter and clothing must I provide my wife, the Marja' will tell you 'Urf, meaning that which is customary in your society.

You can't say women can't be Marjas because of Urf. That is utterly rediculous.

I challenge you to ask any Marja' and get a response from him that women can't be Marja's because of 'Urf (because it is customary for women
to not be Marja's)! Please post your response in this thread. Is that so hard? Simply ask, is it because of 'urf that women can't be Marja's?

If, you are correct, I will apologize for calling your statement utterly rediculous, but I know you are wrong so you should apologize for posting nonsense and then insulting people who challenge it.

Also see http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/t...oman-be-a-marja where there is a thorough discussion on the topic of 10 pages and over 200 posts and please notice that not 1 person advanced your silly 'urf argument to prove that women can't be Marja's, not 1! This proves that you are either a genius (because no one there sees what you see) or you are the opposite.

This post has been edited by muslimjinn: Jul 28 2010, 05:44 PM

[Ibn_e_Haider]

It was the "Urf" 30 years ago among mujtahids that Christians and Jews are Najis!
Now it is "Urf" that they are not.
What does that tell you about Urf?

Urf means nothing when it comes to formulating Islamic laws. For that we have to use Qur'an, Hadeeth, Ijmaa' and 'Aql.

Where did you obtained your ijaza-e-ijtihad to pass this baseless claim! Please read the following: http://www.islamic-laws.com/urf.htm

‘Urf’ is an Arabic term, which means general opinion or custom in a community. This is a very important term in fiqh as many of the rulings (fatwas) issued by a mujtahid on different issues (masail) are based on Urf. On the other hand, there are also many rulings in fiqh, which are not based on Urf.
.^. A more technical term in fiqh is ‘Urful Mutasharre’een’ or ‘Urful Muttaqeen’ meaning general opinion of the righteous momineen in a community.
.^. Urf about an issue may change by passage of time and also by change of place.
.^. An understanding of ‘Urf’ will make it easier to understand the logic and reasons of many fatwas issued by a mujtahid.

EXAMPLES OF MASAIL BASED ON URF
1- Fatwa: “Wearing of gold is haram for men”. But what is gold ? Is ‘18-karat gold’ or a ‘14-karat gold’ or a ‘white gold’ considered as gold in Islam for this fatwa ? This will depend upon Urf. For example, if in a community (village, town etc), people consider an 18-karat gold as gold, then wearing of 18-karat gold is haram for men.
Otherwise not. An opinion of gold expert will not be accepted by the sharia for implementation of this fatwa.

I know of three top experts in Islamic law that say women can be Marja's; Jannaati, Fadlullah and Saanei.

Brother, I am not blind! I can read and the sole purpose of this discussion, I will one more time for you, to learn what are the theological evidences for the current decree by most of the grand ayatullahs versus few who say otherwise!

That is enough to prove that this Urf argument of yours holds no water on this issue. You must prove that women can't be Marjas
and if you can't, you must accept that women can be Marjas too.

I hope you can read English! Vide Supra.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Look, if Fatimah al Zahra (as) was alive and no other Imams were present would you refuse to follow her views on Islamic law because
of Urf??? lol.

She never claimed, although she could have and if she claims, ask me any thing, like Imam Ali (AS) did , why I would not!

Watch the movie Maryam al Muqaddasah and see how the Jews in her time tried to prevent her from praying in the temple with the men.
Why did the refuse? Urf.

We are discussing _ISLAMIC RULINGS_here!

If you have Mustadrak 'Urwah al Wuthqaa of al-Hakim, there should be a discussion on this topc. Please consult with that work and get back to us.

Should or is? Have you read that your self or just making a conjecture to impress few people!

Jurists have different opinions and the minority opinion is not necessarily the incorrect one bro.

I am well aware of this!

We are Shi'ah and we are the minority among Muslims. Should we abandon our beliefs because it goes against the Urf? lol.

We take the Urf of masoom (AS) not self-righteous lose minded ones.....

You are misusing the term Urf in Islamic jurisprudence.

No I am not. I just tried to expalined based on _AyatUllah's response! Although I doubt Ayatullah self answered this, probably his office and some things must have lost in translation as well......

You can't say women can't be Marjas because of Urf. That is utterly rediculous.

You are stupid enough to make these childish claims over and over again! Who are you trying to impress? A fatwa can not be based merely on Just one reason in majority of cases, however exceptions are possible! Read the whole discussion before you type next time.....